Compare These Essays
"The Rose of the Name" by Joshua Clover appears in the first issue of Fence, and "Fear of Narrative and the Skittery Poem of Our Moment" by Tony Hoagland appears in the March issue of Poetry.
Now write two poems, one that Robert Hass might call ethical, one that will allow you to escape from the inescapable room of one of Joshua Clover's favorite childhood jokes, and one that Hass might call unethical, one that allows you to stay there in that room in(e)scaping or whatever. Now put those two poems together on a page and let them talk at each other.
Now write two poems, one that Robert Hass might call ethical, one that will allow you to escape from the inescapable room of one of Joshua Clover's favorite childhood jokes, and one that Hass might call unethical, one that allows you to stay there in that room in(e)scaping or whatever. Now put those two poems together on a page and let them talk at each other.
posted by Anonymous at 1:04 AM
6 Comments:
This is a good exercise. I can use it to put into conflict 2 types of writing I do -- surrealism and realist/autobiography. I wonder if the 2 types of writing are so opposed as one would believe. Both are forms of communication, expressing ideas about the world, whereas full-time silence and spectating are passive, and to me, un-ethical ways of being.
I don't know Don, surrealism believes there's a connection between words and the world and I think would be ultimately ethical. Language poetry is more about sign signifier referent than the apt juxtaposition, which makes for boxes within boxes. Am I wrong?
I think you're on to something with the spectating/passivity. I think within your frame, language poetry would be considered spectating. Have you read Guy DeBord's Society of the Spectacle?
http://www.bopsecrets.org/SI/debord/
Words are the world. We are words. I'm a signifier for humanity. You're a symbol of its soul.
Cheesy, right?
Surrealism wants to create new connections between words and the world, so we can see the world fresh, so we can see a truer "reality" that is obscured by the old cliches and ways of seeing new things. Language poetry seems to be more "theory" rather than "art." It's very "literal," very dull, because it's only about the words, which is how the world is (the cave, the mass of meaningless texts we're exposed to each day), rather than showing glimpses of life outside the cave (surrealism, poetry in general).
Thanks for the link to Guy DeBord's essay. I was drawing my ideas mostly from Neil Postman and Curtis White (an old teacher), but they probably read DeBord, also. It looks very interesting.
Oh, yeah. I've read most of postman. Only heard Curtis White speak once. He came to Colorado State when I was in grad school. It was an odd presentation. The humanists in the department sat him down in a room with his friend Steve Young, (I think that was the prof's name. Young only taught at CSU for a year. Didn't like the environment. I assume) anyway, the humanists in the department grilled them for about two hours. I think Ron Sukenick from CU was there with White and Young. At that time, I didn't even know what a Humanist was.
So much for liberal education.
I also like reading Erich Fromm a lot. I'd say him, Postman, and maybe Jameson (The Postmodern Condition) have influenced me the most, as far as cultural theory goes. I also like the current editor of Agni's work, Gutenberg Elegies, etc.
I don't know the G. Elegies. I'll look at them.
Thanks.
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